Disputatio Usoris:Doug

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{{#useliquidthreads:1}} Salve Doug!

Knowledge of Latin is not required on this project, and we thank you for assisting us. Feel free to use English, German, French or Italian when communicating with other users.

In disputationibus mos noster non est nomen dare, sed in paginis disputationis memento editis tuis nomen subscribere, litteris impressis --~~~~, quibus insertis nomen tuum et dies apparebit.

Omnibus links:

Gratus sis apud vicifontes! John Vandenberg 11:25, 5 Decembris 2010 (UTC)


Here --Accurimbono (disp) 15:15, 21 Februarii 2011 (UTC)

Iwpage, where should we put it?[recensere]

Dear Doug,

thank you for your question, which is very interesting.

  • First: there's no practical difference in putting the template in the header section or in the body section: in Pagina:Abelard Heloise Cousin - Lettres I.djvu/7 the template works fine.
  • I put it in the header section because I found it there when it was first used, I just followed a former hint.
  • Actually, if a template is put out of immediate sight it's safer from newbies or vandals...
    • ...but that isn't very wiki. Maybe, when editing such a page, seeing a template instead of nothing would be more meaningful and would give explanation of the message shown in the page...
  • Ok. Let's noinclude it in the body section. - εΔω 08:23, 13 Martii 2011 (UTC)

The error message in Pagina:Abelard Heloise Cousin - Lettres I.djvu/7 can be easily fixed by removing the <references /> tag in the footer, but that'll have to be done manually every time a transcluded page has ref tags in itself.

I was totally mistaken. The bug can't be fixed with ordinary methods. either ThomasV has a clue to tweak his MediaWiki:InterWikiTransclusion.js to transclude those refs or we are stuck. - εΔω 09:06, 13 Martii 2011 (UTC)


I read your message about localization, and I have to partly disagree. Forgive me if I'll be blunt, but I'm writing without too attention for linguistic diplomacy to deploy quickly what I think:

I don't want this project to become neither an English colony nor a (far worse) photocopy of meta.

I feel forced to use English in these discussions, and that's fine until it involves "internal" discussions, and (even if it isn't yet decided) service pages, but that's where English should stop. There are many many people in the world outside the Anglo-saxon realm that know Latin (far) better than English. Even if I can use some English I don't wish this project to resemble http://www.thelatinlibrary.com or similar projects. On the other hand this is my disputable POV, and this discussion should be shared with many many users in the scriptorium. - εΔω 09:08, 13 Martii 2011 (UTC)

I knew i could misunderstand. That's where I should stop and wait for some other users to express their POV. And I know that sometimes writing something wrong is better than writing nothing, because when discussion is polite further explanations clarify what can be misunderstood (outside wikilove driven talks this is a very very dangerous approach, in fact on it.wikipedia I read a lot of discussions but I very seldom write outside ns0). - εΔω 09:36, 13 Martii 2011 (UTC)


:) --Accurimbono (disp) 20:19, 21 Martii 2011 (UTC)


Dear Doug,

You wrote that my edits are flooding the RC... You're undoubtedly right, but let me wonder if we have te same notion about "flooding": I thought that as an en.wikipedia user you should not have been confused by my recent berserk editing, which compared with an ordinary day in it.wikisource is all but eye-baffling. Nonetheless I've no problem in marking my edits as minor and I'll do it at once. If you let me confess thoroughly, I hoped that leaving a dense trace of my edits in the User namespace will let you create language categorues more easily: I never thought that this cluster or changes would hinder normal RC patrolling. But again I'm thinking with abrain of an old geezer accustomed to inspect pages and pages of logs: thank you for reminding me not to be ruthless in my activity. - εΔω 14:32, 23 Martii 2011 (UTC)

here's a little gift for you[recensere]

Dear Doug,

I'm very glad to show you my latest idea: Formula:Babelcat (the name recalls your nice pun): it exploits

  • CSS classes used in babelboxes to paint different backgorounds for its messages
  • labeled sections used in babelboxes to copy the message of a babelbox as a header in the corresponding category
  • the same usual two parameters (language code and proficiency level) to automatically categorize and defaultsort the categoris labeled with this template.

Finally, clicking on the image you are redirected to Vicifons:Babel/Linguae where you find a complete list of possible babel categories: there you can check if everything's OK.

Look at some categories and their wikicode... you'll notice the advantage if you plan to create many categories. - εΔω 18:08, 24 Martii 2011 (UTC)

Poem indentation[recensere]

Dear doug,

I know th e issue, It involves some CSS classes "pagetext": it has been solved in it.source. I need to get some information before butchering the look of the whole project. - εΔω 23:18, 25 Martii 2011 (UTC)


Thanks for your message, Doug !
Question : I was stuggling a bit with headers. By header I mean book or chapter title with page number at top of page. There is a macro somewhere that allows you to center the header title, while pushing the page number left or right. But I don't know what this macro is called in Latin. Any suggestions? LU7685

I think you are looking for {{rh}} (the name comes from the English "Rolling Header"), you use it like this {{rh|a|b|c}} where a or c will usually be a page number or possibly a chapter number and b will usually be the book title, the author, or the chapter title, depending on the format of the work. a, b, and c are all optional so you can use it like this: {{rh||b}} or {{rh|||c}} or {{rh|a}}, etc. Here's an example Pagina:The poems of Gaius Valerius Catullus - Francis Warre Cornish.djvu/18. Let me know if that's not what you mean or if you have any trouble using it.--Doug.(Disputatio Conlationes) 09:35, 17 Iulii 2011 (UTC)

File:De Nobilitate et Praecellentia Foeminei Sexus, Agrippa, 1529.djvu[recensere]

  • Here you go, the OCR seems almost passable, almost certainly good enough for match and split. I have also found out how to get the best resolution Gallica images from this little task, and pygrabber has been updated. Inductiveload 05:52, 13 Augusti 2011 (UTC)


See Disputatio Usoris:Wuyouyuan for my answer to your question.--Wuyouyuan 00:40, 25 Augusti 2011 (UTC)

Formula:Iwpage malfunction ?[recensere]

Hi Doug,

As you kindly invited me, I come to you about a problem I found while using Formula:Iwpage in ws:la - I am now editing Cicero's complete works on ws:fr see here - it is a bilingual edition, latin/french, so, according to WS conventions, I was asked to use Formula:Iwpage template to put the latin part on ws:la, while putting the french part on ws:fr.

As you can see, if you go to this page (on ws:fr) [1], the latin page (on ws:la) is clearly readable on that page, which only contains {{iwpage|la}} , whereas on next page (on ws:la) [2], the french page (which is validated) is not readable...

Do you know why ? is there a problem with the template you use on ws:la — I tried and look at it - it's been edited very much, but I'm not a code specialist, and I don't see where there is a problem... Could you please help me ?

Thank you very much --Hsarrazin 19:39, 31 Augusti 2011 (UTC)

PS : I write to you in English, because it seems to me you're an english-speaker - if I'm wrong and you speak french, please let me know :) PPS : I don't know how to create a link to a formula here (on ws:fr we use {{m|name of the formula}}) - is there an equivalent here ?

Thanks a lot :) - it works now... a lot of work for me to correct now, but, hehhhh... that's why we love Wikisource :) --Hsarrazin 19:25, 2 Septembris 2011 (UTC) PS : could you direct me to the typographic and presentation conventions on ws:la, please, if there are ? --Hsarrazin 19:25, 2 Septembris 2011 (UTC)

The problem is at MediaWiki:Common.js, there's a '''Bold text''' in the last line Candalua 20:39, 31 Augusti 2011 (UTC)

  • Thanks Candalua, phe mentioned it too, it got copied in somehow by accident when I was adding other text, I probably hit the button on the toolbar and didn't notice. Gone now.
  • Hsarrazin, English is best for me but I can manage to read French or German, may not do well writing back though - or it may take me couple hours to write it out. ;) --Doug.(Disputatio Conlationes) 19:41, 2 Septembris 2011 (UTC)
    • Hsarrazin, personally, I've had a lot of issues with this template. It isn't good for bilingual full-works where scans in one language are rare, in my opinion. In these cases, the bilingual scan may be needed to support both the original text on la.ws and the bilingual text on fr.ws. la and fr may use different formatting, different templates, different css, etc. Even if you get them right at the moment, if we make a change to our css (I just made a major change by enabling dynamic layouts), everything could be messed up on the side-by-side work. If you plan to only transclude the french text at fr then it's not a big deal with la but with a modern language it might be. For example, I'm working on an la/en work where the whole work should be transcluded at en but the latin text has no other reasonably available sources. en has many templates and much formatting that doesn't exist anywhere else. I am considering transcribing the la text here and then importing to en and not using {{iwpage}} at all. There is a thread on the Scriptorium (here) and an associated thread at old.ws (here). Please take a look and provide thoughts if you want.--Doug.(Disputatio Conlationes) 19:54, 2 Septembris 2011 (UTC)
As a matter of fact, Doug, my problem is, the book used is bilingual AND the transclusion template "needs" latin pages to be empty to correctly transclude french pages in one command line : I was "asked" to move all latin text to ws:la with this template : it is not my choice :) - so, as best as I can, I try to make it right :) - but I do not intend to make a "side-by-side" edition (at least, not now) - I just intend to be able to make a clean edition of the book, in two languages... --Hsarrazin 21:26, 3 Septembris 2011 (UTC)
<sigh> so now the {{iwpage}}, a mediocre solution to a problem that should have been foreseen long ago before it was created with the establishment of subdomains, is considered the solution to a different and completely unrelated technical problem, the failure of <pages> to handle skipped pages properly.--Doug.(Disputatio Conlationes) 08:45, 4 Septembris 2011 (UTC)
I agree with you, it's not a "good" solution, but it's that, or a "page by page" transclusion (on a 500 pages book) ! My thought is : it would be simpler (at least for bilingual books with side-by-side pages) to allow the "direct transclusion" of all (default) pages in an interval, or (with parameter) : all even or all odd pages - I think it would be much more "elegant" and "efficient" - perhaps you could suggest it to those who work ont the technical problems of transclusion - I don't even know where to put the suggestion :)
PS : I changed my "babel" indicators on my personal page - thank you for directing me to the right Tabula --Hsarrazin 18:20, 10 Septembris 2011 (UTC)
Oh, I see the problem. I thought you were doing this because of the <pages/> bug (wherein it dropped the last page if you skipped a page). That bug, incidentally, was just fixed. hmmm, odd or even, interesting thought. Those sorts of things are usually discussed on oldwikisource: and IRC. I'll mention it.--Doug.(Disputatio Conlationes) 18:25, 10 Septembris 2011 (UTC)
Actually, that probably wouldn't be hard to incorporate into {{page}} as either a parameter or a variant. It would be a lot more difficult probably to add to <pages/> but I can look into it.--Doug.(Disputatio Conlationes) 20:31, 10 Septembris 2011 (UTC)


Dear Doug,

here I'm back: I'm working on another biblingual book so I'm going to spend some time here.

I noticed the interesting use of template:Babelcat on a user page. That template is designed as a header for categories, but nothing forbids to use it elsewhere.

See you soon here. I'm going to review and answer in all those discussions I overlooked in these last months ^_^' - εΔω 17:14, 10 Septembris 2011 (UTC)


No he recibido ningun correo con pensamientos, si me los mando, mandemelos a mi pagina de discucio

atte: --Lew XXI 03:00, 4 Octobris 2011 (UTC)

No sé que decir, És un honor, pero no se en que consiste

--Lew XXI 04:04, 4 Octobris 2011 (UTC)

Latin palaeography[recensere]

Dear Doug,

you are approaching Latin Palaeography with the enthusiasm of a neophyte and that's good, bu when you're asking me for a cheat sheet... let me use this simile: you're actually trying to study ayurvedic medicine having only ancient Sanscrit Vedic literature and asking for a Sanscrit syllabary sheet...

If this can help it happened something similar when I fell in love with Apple technology and I asked a technician if I could study the Inside Macintosh volumes to understand how my computer works... with no knowledge about informatics, programming and so on.

Unfortunately the most valuable resources about abbreviaturae are still offline, and they are mostly written in Latin.

Searching for recent and understandable resources online I found

...I have to admit: no easy cheatsheet, sorry. By the way, I'm no palaeographer: I had to sweat and nearly swear to get through the Latin fragments in this manuscript.

As for a policy about transcription of abbreviated text I am avalaible. We discussed it on it.source, and even if we couldn't conjure the perfect rule (it's impossible) we actually wrote something sensible here. - εΔω 08:23, 9 Octobris 2011 (UTC)

  • (edit conflict) LOL! I wasn't actually asking for a cheatsheet. I was saying "I'd even take a cheatsheet if there's not a good text. If you can refer me to a quality text, even it is Latin, I'd appreciate it. I really want something detailed and thorough. Thanks. I'll check out the links above. --Doug.(Disputatio Conlationes) 08:35, 9 Octobris 2011 (UTC)

New 'crats in town![recensere]

Dear Doug,

I realized, animadverti.

FYI, I just ended the experimental sessions on it.source, and I can have the Babel extension cosmetic changes to common.css done in a few minutes. My Real Life leaves me just tiny fragments of time, and you can see me editing single pages quite slowly, but don't fret: I'm on my way to the transition from Usoris linguae to Babel extension. Luckily there are not too many user pages pointing to the obsolete system. - εΔω 16:24, 25 Octobris 2011 (UTC)

Babel extension: new episode...[recensere]

Dear Doug,

I'm afraid I'll have to ask you some bot-work. Let me explain.

I imported from it.wiki the css classes needed to have some decently looking babelboxes (you can see the result in your userpage).

I was going to replace the previous system but I noticed that there are two red links on the header and footer of the babel box. They pointo to a help page and that's no problem: on la.wikipedia there's a page waiting to be imported.

What I can't change without some work is the link in the footer: it's called by MediaWiki:Babel-footer-url. I have two choices:

  1. changing the Mediawiki message to Categoria:Linguae usorum, which is the easiest,
  2. changing the Mediawiki message to Categoria:usores lingua digesti which is the same as in la.wiki, resembles more closely the original meaning of the category, but implies a global renaming of all the subcats of Linguae usorum...

I'm leaning towards the second solution, but it would take a bot.

What do you think? Is it wise to look at what is chosen in la.wiki? - ¯εΔω 16:16, 1 Novembris 2011 (UTC)

I think it makes perfect sense to consider la.wiki's choices, especially when they are more logical than what we have. Choice 2 sounds the better (though largely because you say so ;-) )
When you say "a global renaming of all of the subcats", do you mean that every subcat would have to be renamed or simply that every subcat would need to be recategorized? If the former, I'm not sure that it is possible to move or rename categories; I think we would have to delete all the subcats and create new ones under the new names. If the latter, that's fairly simple. It boils down to: is there a problem with the Usores cats?
Either way, there aren't that many, it may not even require a bot. I think we should make the change--Doug.(Disputatio Conlationes) 19:03, 1 Novembris 2011 (UTC)
I meant "every subcategory would need to be recategorized from Linguae usorum to Usores lingua digesti": we are categorizing users, not languages.
They are 32... you are right, it can be done manually: they are much fewer than the userpages to be adapted to Babel extension. - εΔω 20:31, 2 Novembris 2011 (UTC)
detto fatto (While I told it I made it): recatecorization was done and I bluified the red links in the box. Unfortunately I noticed that User pages aren't yet categorized!. Since categorization is a key purpose in the babel system I have to stand by: transition will go on when this issue is resolved. - εΔω 22:36, 2 Novembris 2011 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Proofreadpage header template[recensere]

Hi Doug,

I tried to fix the message MediaWiki:Proofreadpage header template. I import the english message and adapt/translate it but there is a bug with the author name. Could you look at this and try to fix it ?

Sorry for the disturbance.

Cdlt, VIGNERON 15:17, 11 Novembris 2011 (UTC)

Delete ?[recensere]


Did you still need Liber:Sandbox.djvu (and Fasciculus:Sandbox.djvu) ?

Cdlt, VIGNERON 07:53, 6 Februarii 2012 (UTC)

  • No, not right now. On en.ws though we have these for sandboxes and they are helpful and I doubt that anyone is going to run across them by accident and not understand what they are. Doesn't matter to me though if you want to delete them.--Doug.(Disputatio Conlationes) 02:00, 11 Februarii 2012 (UTC)

Username rename request: White Cat -> とある白い猫[recensere]

I'd like to request username rename per SUL. -- Cat chi? 09:55, 19 Februarii 2012 (UTC)

  • ✔ Perfectum est. - Done, let me know if there are any issues, that was my first rename and both were SUL accounts so I'm not entirely sure I did it right.--Doug.(Disputatio Conlationes) 23:32, 19 Februarii 2012 (UTC)

Full protection[recensere]

Dear Doug,

I fully protected that page because, as a still unwritten system page linked by a lot of pages through the Flagged revs system it is an obvious target for vandalism. I don't mean this move to be definitive, but effective untile tha page is written. High traffic system pages are usually protected and my purpose id the protection of the project. If you want to unprotect that page I have no objection. - εΔω 22:36, 8 Aprilis 2012 (UTC)

Forced user renames coming soon for SUL[recensere]

Hi, sorry for writing in English. I'm writing to ask you, as a bureaucrat of this wiki, to translate and review the notification that will be sent to all users, also on this wiki, who will be forced to change their user name on May 27 and will probably need your help with renames. You may also want to help with the pages m:Rename practices and m:Global rename policy. Thank you, Nemo 16:49, 3 Maii 2013 (UTC)

Here I am....[recensere]

.... I hope that I'll not break too many uses of this community; I'm working with a couple of friends on Liber:Agricola De re metallica.djvu, a complex and heavy work, and I feel the need of some new templates, modules and scripts (the last one into my own account js subpages). I asked Candalua (he knows me from years) to stop me if my boldness spreads off too much. :-) --Alex brollo (disputatio) 22:51, 12 Iulii 2013 (UTC)

Happy to let you know that la.source has its first Module. I just customixed it, and it seems that it is running; but it's pretty complex and with many dependancies, so I'll test it deeper. --Alex brollo (disputatio) 21:41, 21 Iulii 2013 (UTC)

Salve, Doug,[recensere]

Gratias plurimas tibi!

--Ana Pérez Vega (disputatio) 12:10, 5 Aprilis 2014 (UTC)

An important message about renaming users[recensere]

Dear Doug, My aplogies for writing in English. Please translate or have this translated for you if it will help. I am cross-posting this message to many places to make sure everyone who is a Wikimedia Foundation project bureaucrat receives a copy. If you are a bureaucrat on more than one wiki, you will receive this message on each wiki where you are a bureaucrat.

As you may have seen, work to perform the Wikimedia cluster-wide single-user login finalisation (SUL finalisation) is taking place. This may potentially effect your work as a local bureaucrat, so please read this message carefully.

Why is this happening? As currently stated at the global rename policy, a global account is a name linked to a single user across all Wikimedia wikis, with local accounts unified into a global collection. Previously, the only way to rename a unified user was to individually rename every local account. This was an extremely difficult and time-consuming task, both for stewards and for the users who had to initiate discussions with local bureaucrats (who perform local renames to date) on every wiki with available bureaucrats. The process took a very long time, since it's difficult to coordinate crosswiki renames among the projects and bureaucrats involved in individual projects.

The SUL finalisation will be taking place in stages, and one of the first stages will be to turn off Special:RenameUser locally. This needs to be done as soon as possible, on advice and input from Stewards and engineers for the project, so that no more accounts that are unified globally are broken by a local rename to usurp the global account name. Once this is done, the process of global name unification can begin. The date that has been chosen to turn off local renaming and shift over to entirely global renaming is 15 September 2014, or three weeks time from now. In place of local renames is a new tool, hosted on Meta, that allows for global renames on all wikis where the name is not registered will be deployed.

Your help is greatly needed during this process and going forward in the future if, as a bureaucrat, renaming users is something that you do or have an interest in participating in. The Wikimedia Stewards have set up, and are in charge of, a new community usergroup on Meta in order to share knowledge and work together on renaming accounts globally, called Global renamers. Stewards are in the process of creating documentation to help global renamers to get used to and learn more about global accounts and tools and Meta in general as well as the application format. As transparency is a valuable thing in our movement, the Stewards would like to have at least a brief public application period. If you are an experienced renamer as a local bureaucrat, the process of becoming a part of this group could take as little as 24 hours to complete. You, as a bureaucrat, should be able to apply for the global renamer right on Meta by the requests for global permissions page on 1 September, a week from now.

In the meantime please update your local page where users request renames to reflect this move to global renaming, and if there is a rename request and the user has edited more than one wiki with the name, please send them to the request page for a global rename.

Stewards greatly appreciate the trust local communities have in you and want to make this transition as easy as possible so that the two groups can start working together to ensure everyone has a unique login identity across Wikimedia projects. Completing this project will allow for long-desired universal tools like a global watchlist, global notifications and many, many more features to make work easier.

If you have any questions, comments or concerns about the SUL finalisation, read over the Help:Unified login page on Meta and leave a note on the talk page there, or on the talk page for global renamers. You can also contact me on my talk page on meta if you would like. I'm working as a bridge between Wikimedia Foundation Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Stewards, and you to assure that SUL finalisation goes as smoothly as possible; this is a community-driven process and I encourage you to work with the Stewards for our communities.

Thank you for your time. -- Keegan (WMF) talk 18:24, 25 Augusti 2014 (UTC)

--This message was sent using MassMessage. Was there an error? Report it!


Actif on SWMT and x-wiki patroller,i would like to help this wiki to fight vandalism and spam. Is it possible to get revisor right? I have sysop on two wiki and various rights across other projects. Regards and wonderful holiday! --Grind24 (disputatio) 17:52, 28 Decembris 2014 (UTC)

Done, thanks for your interest in this project!--Doug.(Disputatio Conlationes) 13:11, 25 Ianuarii 2015 (UTC)
Thanks :) Grind24 (disputatio) 15:36, 25 Ianuarii 2015 (UTC)
If you have a moment, please comment on the discussion here.--Doug.(Disputatio Conlationes) 19:20, 25 Ianuarii 2015 (UTC)
I added some suggestion and comment about the AAR and the local process.Grind24 (disputatio) 20:02, 25 Ianuarii 2015 (UTC)

Userpage deletion[recensere]

Hello. Could you please delete my userpage (for global user page's display)? Thanks. Hausratte (disputatio) 09:26, 21 Februarii 2015 (UTC)

✔ Perfectum est.--Doug.(Disputatio Conlationes) 16:29, 21 Februarii 2015 (UTC)
Thank you! And the 2nd request :) Can I get revisor rights? My contributions: Magna Carta (liber), also Lex Duodecim Tabularum and Digesta (in progress). Hausratte (disputatio) 11:28, 22 Februarii 2015 (UTC)
Done, unless you 1) know latin well and 2) will be validating pages, you probably only need recensor as all revisor can do extra is mark pages as "quality".--Doug.(Disputatio Conlationes) 04:34, 23 Februarii 2015 (UTC)


Usor:Phe/common.js for the code, it contains a few FIXME for the needed translatation. Vicifons:Dictionary for the global dictionary, User:Phe for a test and the use of a local dictionary. And finally the template Formula:Modernisation to create local dictionary. The template can be renamed without trouble. The global dictionary name Vicifons:Dictionary can be renamed but the name must be changed in the script. Some tips:

  • Only words are allowed in the dictionary, no punctuation must be used.
  • Local dict entry overwrite global dict entry
  • You can match more than one word so
*foo bar: foobar

will work. This works up to 3 words.

  • Formula:Modernisation contains a category tagging text with modernization option, adding a cat make sense only if « selection_mode: 'AND' » as if « selection_mode: 'OR', » means all pages can be modernized and a cat is pointless in such case.
  • The script contains a word_chars : 'a-zçâàäāãéèêẽëîïôöōõûùüÿœæA-ZÀÂÄÉÈÊËÎÏÔÖÙÛÜŸÇŒÆ&ßẞĩq̃ĨQ̃', this defines the charset of characters which are contained in a words, you are likely to need to add paleo abbrev. to it.
  • Script works on text node, i.e. consecutive text without html tag, this mean than: foo bar can be matched as a whole and modified but "foo <span style="...">bar</span>" can be matched only with a dict entry for foo and another for bar.

Phe (disputatio) 18:27, 22 Februarii 2015 (UTC)

Translating the interface in your language, we need your help[recensere]

Hello Doug, thanks for working on this wiki in your language. We updated the list of priority translations and I write you to let you know. The language used by this wiki (or by you in your preferences) needs about 100 translations or less in the priority list. You're almost done!
To add or change translations for all wikis, please use translatewiki.net, the MediaWiki localisation project.

Please register on translatewiki.net if you didn't yet and then help complete priority translations (make sure to select your language in the language selector). With a couple hours' work or less, you can make sure that nearly all visitors see the wiki interface fully translated. Nemo 14:06, 26 Aprilis 2015 (UTC)