Disputatio:Ars Memorativa Gulielmi Leporei Avallonensis

Two line drop caps

Hi there, I don't think it is useful to display the two line drop cap images; they are not especially decorative and look quite tatty. I would keep the larger, decorative drop caps if you like them but just use normal letters for the (plainer to their eye) two line drop caps. JimKillock (disputatio) 18:16, 4 Octobris 2025 (UTC)

Ping to Usor:Sp1nd01. Reminder on this, I'd prefer we don't waste someone's time adding them in, if we are going to remove them. I don't understand the rationale for keeping them, as they are not very decorative and of low image quality. JimKillock (disputatio) 07:09, 6 Octobris 2025 (UTC)

Chapters to pages

Feel free to move the chapters to pages at this stage> Note there seem to be four books I- IIII; and the chapters (Capitulum Primum, Secundum, etc) fall below each book. JimKillock (disputatio) 18:18, 4 Octobris 2025 (UTC)

You are right. The only one way to eat an elephant: one bite at a time ~2025-68940-4 (talk) 01:13, 5 Octobris 2025 (UTC)

I’ve put together a table of contents for the book, but I want to be honest — I’m not entirely sure it’s accurate. Since I don’t really understand Latin, there’s a good chance that some titles or sections might be a little off. Please take it with a grain of salt, and feel totally free to tweak, revise, or even redo anything that doesn’t seem right. I’d really appreciate your help in making it as accurate and clear as possible! ~2025-68940-4 (talk) 02:01, 5 Octobris 2025 (UTC)

Basically: avoid creating new content, new names etc. As a transcription project, Wikisource aims to present the original content, not modified content. Some of the chapters in the book do have chapter names, but many do not. It also of course does not have a table of contents, but this we have to add for the book to work online. Thus we draw the ToC where we can from the book. Simplest is to ignore the inconsistent often absent Latin chapter titles, and just use Caput Primum, etc.

If you prefer, as with Caput Quartum, you can use the long titles the book gives, eg ''Caput Quartum, de Potentia Memoratiua, quae principaliter in hoc libro consideranda est.'', but we should not make these up.

The first items can be "Gulielmus Leporeus Domino Gulielmo Iornoer" then "Gabriel Tornoer Gulielmo Leporeo"; the latter can contain the epigram (which is the letter supposedly in a poematic form).

Explicit does not appear in the book; there is a final letter, you can just call this "Iodocus Badius Ascensius Guilielmo Lepori". JimKillock (disputatio) 08:47, 5 Octobris 2025 (UTC)

Perfectum est. ~2025-68940-4 (talk) 04:52, 7 Octobris 2025 (UTC)

Translations

Hi there,

It's good to see that you are working on an English translation, however i think you should store it somewhere else if possible. Hiding it within the pages as a hidden (table) element means that everyone is served the content whether they want it or not, and sooner or later someone might just delete it.

Better places to put it could include English Wikisource, where you can link the translation back to the original Latin pages, or Wikibooks, which might also host it or a bilingual version, or Multilingual Wikisource, which is designed for multilingual works. On other Wikisources, best practice is to transclude Latin content, rather than copy-paste, so it remains linked to the original scans. Hope that helps. JimKillock (disputatio) 08:11, 13 Octobris 2025 (UTC)

Ping to @EncycloPetey in case he has any advice on creating an English translation of the book and where it might go. JimKillock (disputatio) 08:13, 13 Octobris 2025 (UTC)

I have no idea what you are talking about. What translation are you referring to? I am not working on any hidden translation. --EncycloPetey (disputatio) 17:15, 13 Octobris 2025 (UTC)

Hi @EncycloPetey, apologies, I was asking for your advice about translations added by @~2025-68940-4 and where these might be best placed.

An example of the translations, hidden as an HTML comment, is here. I assume this isn't the eventual destination of the translation but wanted to be clear it can't really stay there. JimKillock (disputatio) 07:20, 14 Octobris 2025 (UTC)

Sorry for the confusion. I’m not experienced in Latin or translation — I used ChatGPT to help translate for my own understanding, but I’m not sure if it was entirely correct. It was just for my personal reference and notes. The result led me to the original source material that all the references came from, which is the book “Ars Oratoria. Ars Epistolandi. Ars Memorativa.” by Giacomo Publicio. As you can see, they (Foenix, Congestorium Artificiosae Memoriae and Ars Memorativa) appear to have copied the same mnemonic alphabet from that book.

Below references on pages 90, 91, 92, 93, 98, and 99.

• IACOBUS PUBLICIUS’S ARS MEMORATIVA: AN APPROACH TO THE HISTORY OF THE

~2025-68940-4 (talk) 14:12, 14 Octobris 2025 (UTC)

Translations made for yourself only should be left in a Sandbox or your personal user space, or saved offline. Personal translations should not be added to pages on Wikisource. English translations are stored at English Wikisource. Here at Latin Wikisource, texts are all in Latin. --EncycloPetey (disputatio) 14:36, 14 Octobris 2025 (UTC)

You’re right! Do you know where I can find someone experienced in Latin on English Wikisource? ~2025-68940-4 (talk) 14:43, 14 Octobris 2025 (UTC)

There are quite a lot of people who can help with Latin on WS, I think. Latin to English is easier to check than the other way round. I think the issue you would have is whether people were OK starting with a machine translation. If they are a process might look like:

• Translate page by page from the Latin book, like a transcription, only English is added rather than Latin;
• Once someone with some Latin has validated the book pages, create a mainspace book

But that is just my suggestion and you would need to ask at EN WS if this would be acceptable. JimKillock (disputatio) 17:02, 14 Octobris 2025 (UTC)

Try editing this page — you’ll see where I hid the English translation in an HTML comment. ~2025-68940-4 (talk) 14:53, 14 Octobris 2025 (UTC)